it was obvious that this topic would eventually appear in one of the topic challenges eventually. Some have even prepared their thoughts for an argument of this type. Some may even become personally offended by the spoken remarks. Even though some have strong convictions, perhaps the group has learned from their experience through the cohabitation with another that has lived that experience…

"Gay Marriages. Civil Unions. Equal job rights. The topic is upon legal issues concerning partnerships between same-sex couples. Trying to stay on topic of the legal matters will be tough for some of you *coughdavecough* but remember that posts will be dq'ed if it does not stay on the legal side of the topic. Annette, Dave, Gina, Jason, John and Larry. All but one of you will make it to the final five and half of you will make it to the final three. Congratulations on making it this far. Make this topic challenge worthwhile..." -cybermolehost

"I'm all for marriages between two men or women. I have two good friends who live out in Seattle. They're proud lesbians and have been living together with their children as a close, supportive family for at least 8 years now. I think it's insane that they can't be together legally.These two people are in love with each other - how is that a bad thing? Their marriage affects only them and their families - how can anyone have the right to say "No, you can't get married" when it doesn't affect them *at all*?" -annette

"The problem is that recognizing that partnership as a legal marriage doesn't just affect them. Once they have the legal protection of a government sanctioned marriage, that just opens the door to all kinds of legal challenges and lawsuits. It weakens the notion of marriage. Next, they will claim that since they are a legally married couple, there is no reason they can't adopt children. Great, so here we go. A whole generation of kids being raised by same sex parents. THAT ought to go a long way toward helping straighten out already confused kids. 'Johnny has two mommies' might be a cute name for a book but it is a shitty way to raise children. And it doesnt matter if both partners are wonderful parents, it is still going to produce ####ed up kids. How would you like to get up everyday and see Daddy kiss Daddy goodbye before school and then go listen to the other kids tease you about it? Or have friends over to spend the night and have them ask you why your Mother is holding hands with that other lady and why are they sleeping together? Come on??!! Fine, they love each other. Fine, they are a loving, committed couple. Let them live together anyway they want as long as they aren't hurting anyone else. But don't think for a minute that same-sex marriages being legally recognized won't damage our already ailing society. And what difference does it make if they have a state recognized marriage or not? My question is why is it so important? What rights are they going after? I am not advocating discrimination in the workplace. I am advocating discrimination in the home. Being discriminating means being picky about the laws that govern us. Being choosy about the message that we put forward as representing our beliefs and morals as a people. Being a discriminating person used to be a good thing. I think if we were all a little more careful about the laws we pass in the interest of being accomodating, we would all be better off." -dave

"Parental Scenarios:
Family #1: Dad, Mom, Teen Girl, Teen Boy
- Husband is addicted to cocaine, can't keep a job, recently thrown in jail for raping his daughter
- Wife is alcoholic, slaps kids around
Family #2: Mom, Mom#2, Teen Boy, 2 Young Girls
- Mom supports family with good job
- Mom#2 is stay-at-home mom helping kids with science projects and taking them to soccer practice
Before you tell me Oh that doesn't happen - yes it does. I know both families in real life. You tell me the family you want to live in. You tell me what family is going to have 'screwed up kids'. It has nothing to do with the sexual choices of the parents, it has to do with the parents. If the parents suck it doesn't matter if they're heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual or trisexual - they're going to SUCK as parents. If I had to choose between awesome homosexual parents or shitty heterosexual parents, then homosexual is my #1 and only choice. There's a lot of good kids in this world with homosexual parents - and it would truly be sad to say 'Oh, your dad is gay? You must be really ####ed in the head then.' That's like saying every kid with a dad named Mike is a bad child. It should be about the child, not about the parents." -annette

"Absolutely Correct!! It should be about the child and that is why I am so adamant about not allowing gays to raise children. Sure you can pick extreme examples and anyone would agree with you but there is just as high a percentage of drug and alcohol abusing, child neglecting, spouse beating gay couples as there are straight couples. That is a sad fact but one that remains a problem and always will. My point was that a lot of the problems we are facing as a society usually start with feelings of alienation. I too know lesbian couples that are wonderful parents and the one in particular that I am thinking about are totally inactive in all of the political crap their groups espouse. They just want to be left alone to live their lives in peace and I totally respect and admire that. They have raised a 19 year old from a previous marriage and by all indications, he has turned out fine. But, they got him when he was 12. Already had learned the majority of things he needed to know to feel comfortable in his own skin. But if you agree, that these feelings of being different are what lead some kids to warp out and shoot up the school, then you have to acknowledge the inherent risks in bringing a child up in an environment that is not "normal" Teens have enough crap to deal with during those turbulent few years without adding stress to them. Normal, well-adjusted kids deal with it okay but what about the fence sitters? It is morally wrong. Why do people have such a hard time saying that? The majority feel that way but it is unpopular to say it. Quite possibly the reason the gay community is so strident about their rights and legal protections, blah, blah, blah is because even they feel like second class citizens and know their lifestyle is wrong. The overly militant ones are just over-compensating by yelling at the top of their lungs. Okay back to the legality issue. It doesnt matter if gay couples would make good parents or not, what matters is that it is raising children in a deviant environment. If you allowed your children to be raised in an environment harmful to them(guns lying around, drug use, etc), you would be brought up on child abuse charges. Doesnt it seem likely that being confronted with same sex parents and all that they do, would be harmful to the emotional health of SOME kids? Why are we different? Why don't I have a dad? How come the other moms don't strap on plastic man missiles? Why is Dad kissing that man? Come on, that is just sick to expose a child to that, especially a male child. I'm sorry, but raising a male child in a gay male household simply creates more gay men. They see it, they grow up with it, and they lean toward it. I personally believe this scientific BS about it being genetically determined is crap. It is a choice! Most kids are confused about sex when they are young. Some experiment. But when you teach that it is an acceptable lifestyle in the schools and they see it on television AND they see it everyday in their own homes, it's just going to add to their confusion. Sorry I went into the moral side of things again. Man, it is tough to talk about this without doing that." -dave

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